Steady with Style

Post edited 11:30 am – November 6, 2009 by mar555

I have a 2 year old Female Weimaraner named Callie. She is not the best at playing fetch. If I throw a tennis ball she will most likely bring back a stick. If I am throwing a stick for her she will bring it back most of the time, but she trots back and wants to stop and chew the stick. It also takes a lot of encouraging by me to get her to bring it all the way back. It doesn't take long before she lays down on the way back.

I watch the Bill Gibbons video talking about Force-Fetch. I am not sure who the female trainer was, but her description of the dog she was force fetch training fit Callie's behavior when fetching.

I am trying to get back into hunting and I would love if Callie could be there for it. When she sees a bird when we are in a field she will point it, so I know it is in her to hunt. I just want to go about training her correctly to ensure she and I both enjoy it and it is effective training.

I want to get her to enjoy and be efficient at fetching before I move on to anything else in her training.

She has done nothing in the field. When I said field I meant in a short grassed field by my house in the city. The birds are easily seen but when she sees them she freeze. All I have trained her to do is heel, sit, lay and stay. Last week I had her sit and stay while I biked 200 yards away and she stayed. Other than that she just listens to me around the house. I would like to train her in something she would enjoy.

I am a total newbie hunting with dogs and training dogs in this area as well. I liked the way yall talked about training the dogs on your site, so I thought I would seeks your advice.

I just thought I should start with the retrieve side first. I also thought it would be a fun way to exercise her and a new game.

I realize I am clueless in this area, and was seeking knowledgeable advice. I like the way yall talked about training and though this would be a good place for information.

Post edited 4:05 pm – November 10, 2009 by Candra

Hi!  (I'm the other trainer in the video…)

It's nice to hear another fellow hunter working a weimaraner in the field!

Yes, Anne is correct, the weim I was referring too is young and having fun. I was going to break her last summer but (IMO) mentally, she wasn't ready. So, we've just been working her in the field as much as possible and it has helped tremendously. I highly encourage you to work Callie in the field but I also understand your reasoning with FF training.   

I read about your girl Callie and it sounds similar to how my girl was behaving. So, first of all, do you have a training table? -If not, any type of platform will work, as long as all of her feet are off the ground.

How is she with you placing objects in her mouth? If she won't fight you, then your job will be much easier but if not, no biggie; all you would have to do is set up a pole (or attachment) that would hold her head in place, similar to the set-up they use while grooming.

The closer the attachment is to her collar, the better. You don't want her moving and jerking her head around while you place the object in his mouth. If you need more info on that, I'll send you the details.

The training consists of two-15 min. a day sessions that last anywhere between 4-6 weeks, depending how well the dog is doing. You start of with something basic, a wood dowel or even the training dummies. Place Callie on the training table (make sure she's secure) and with your left hand (or which ever is comfortable) place you thumb and middle finger on top and either side of her muzzle and lift her mouth open. Simultaneously (with your right hand) place the object in her mouth just behind her k9's and say “hold it.” If she looks like she's going to drop it, pat the underside of her jaw upwards and repeat “hold it.”  Once she complies for a short time (let's say 10 sec.) give her the release command and take the object from her mouth. Also, be sure you praise her when the object is in her mouth though. Eventually increase the “hold it” time to a couple of minutes.

    Once she's holding and willingly taking the object in her mouth, time to lead her off the table and walk around with her. At first, just have her jump off the table. More than likely she will drop the dummy. Grab the dummy, place it in her mouth and give the “hold it” in a firm command. Some people opt to give a loud “NO” then give the hold it command. (Personally, I think “NO” is overdoing it though…) I just picked up the object and gave the command and it worked well for Danni. Again, it depends on Callie's temperament, so it's your call if you want to give a firm “NO.” After she is hopping on and off the table without dropping it, begin walking around. Your goal now is to TRY to get her to drop it. If she is in a heeling position move your hand quickly by her mouth and try to knock the object backwards or forwards. More than likely, she'll drop it. Pick it up, give the command to “hold it” and continue on. If she's doing great, praise her! Once she's doing great in the heeling position, it's time to add obstacles.

    As far as the obstacles are concerned be creative, think of anything you might encounter in the field. I walked Danni near trees, into wading pools, hopped up and down on rocks, walked in and out of bodies of water (lake shores), walked near birds (that was a tough one to master, LOL) walked up on logs, etc, anything that distracted her enough to wear she might have dropped the object. Another important thing to consider is where you train with the obstacles. It's VERY important to leave the comfort of your backyard and go out and do some of the “hold and carry” in the woods or field. As far as the dogs are concerned, there's nothing exciting in the yard so they're going to comply much easier. In the field, it's a whole new ball game so make sure to take her out there and perform a couple exercises with the dummy. Once she's doing good in the field, start over (on the training table) with different objects and start the process all over again.

    Repeat this process until she's solid with the different objects in the field. Once she's performing great, move onto frozen dead birds. Once she's holding them without any problem, move up to thawed dead birds. I personally didn't like dealing with the smell, etc… so I skipped this step and ordered a pigeon sock from Dogs Unlimited. The socks worked great because it restricted the movement of the live bird and it also somewhat protected the live bird should Danni have decided to haven bitten down. (I'm lucky, she has a soft mouth but I still watched her like a hawk). If Callie has a hard-mouth, you can get a little spiked harness for a pigeon and that should curb the hard mouthing. There are other ways to curb hard mouthing but I won't delve into that. Anyways…the socked pigeon teaches the same principle of a thawed dead bird; it's a warm object but it's not flapping in the dog's face. Once she is holding the live restricted bird w/out incident move up to a live, unrestricted bird. If you notice she is crunching down, give a firm “NO.” However, after holding all the objects prior to holding a live bird, it should curb the hard mouthing. If you notice she is hard-mouthing the dummies or frozen birds, correct immediately with a “NO” and just watch her like a hawk. Worse case scenario, go back to something hard, i.e. the wooden dowel.

    During the force-fetch process, do not play any kind of retrieving games with her (especially with tennis balls) and don't shoot any live birds over her. That's pretty much the downside to this training, you're working on the hold and carry for about a month and that's it. No field work, as far as retrieving goes. You can still run her and work her on birds, just praise if she points and let the bird fly off.

    I will send you an article that states the same thing but I say “hold it” instead of fetch. The whole principle behind this training is teaching the dog once it has something in her mouth, she cannot drop it. So the command “fetch” or “hold it” has nothing really to do with it; it's just used at first to get the dogs attention.

I use “fetch” to tell Danni to search and when she comes in with the object I will repeat “hold it” a couple of times just to remind her. Now in a testing situation, you can't say anything (depending on the judges) so it's great to work on keeping silent as well. It only takes 2-15 minute sessions a day and you should see an improvement within a couple of weeks.

      Let me know if you're having trouble or if anything I said is confusing. It's one thing to type the process on the computer but it's another thing to see the process demonstrated in person. 

I hope this helps!